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[personal profile] charloween
Order of the Phoenix makes a damn good movie.

What I liked:
- the directing was really tight. Ginny's reaction shots, for example, weren't apart from the action, they were just there. I also got really excited about a cut at the beginning, when Harry and Dudley run under the bridge. When it cuts from them in the park to them running, I was happy 'cause the other directors in the other films wouldn't have given us that.

- the film was about politics, not magic. The first two movies were about "ooooh, look at these kids with wands, ain't that special?" This movie had magic, sure, but it's no more remarked upon than the clothes people wear. It's there, sure, but it's not what the movie was about.

- flying into London. I got chills all over. It wasn't just pretty (and I haven't been watching too much Doctor Who!), it was so very nice to have the story ground itself in a broader reality. It's not a story about kids at some magic castle, this is a recognizable and contemporary world.

- every single minute with Gary Oldman

- every single minute with the Weasley twins

- every single minute with Alan Rickman (*melts*)

- flashbacks to previous movies

- HAIRCUTS! They all got haircuts and they all look so much better (stupid emo hair).
- the CAPS LOCK OF RAGE was safely contained in a few outbursts; likewise the emo-goo

- almost zero exposition (what's a prophecy? who cares! how do you get them? who cares!)

- Luna Lovegood.

- Harry's ringer-tee/corduroy jacket combo at the end (he's so indie!)

- the kids' performances are getting better and better, helped I'm sure by the fact that this director didn't ask for Ron reaction shots.

I wouldn't have minded seeing more Draco or Lupin, though the Lupin we did get at the end, in slo-mo, was a fantastic choice. There was also the problem (from the book, really) that the story here is just getting us to the climax rather than being a story on its own, but as a Next Chapter, it was done really well. There weren't many memorable lines, but that's okay, too.

DR could lose the weird close-mouth smile thing and I'd be okay with that. He looks really awkward when the script calls for him to be happy.

I'll probably catch this one again in theatres.

...


Harry:
die - one kind of logical end; an easy out for Rowling because she gets to write Harry as a martyr/hero, propelled by forces set in motion before his birth to his eventual doom. If he dies, it means that his entire life was essentially leading up to being a tool/pawn in a civil war. All that he's learned, been and done means nothing if he dies. I would have been okay with it, with the exception of that stupid prophecy - if it's ordained in some way, then it's not Harry's choice to participate in the war.

live - what I'd like to see. Since I'd put good money down on either Voldy or Harry not surviving the end of the book, having Harry live would be far more entertaining and interesting than allowing him to die. If he lives, he'll have to live in the world that he's created. He'll have to grow up, get a job and/or live off that pile of coin in his vault and learn how to be a person, rather than a tool. He's had to look over his shoulder for three/four years by this point, living with the knowledge that he was being hunted. It would be facinating for him to have to find out who he is when he's not defining himself against this threat. To find out who he'd be when he's not being a child-soldier.

Voldy: if he doesn't die, there'd better be a damn good reason. I don't want her stretching the Harry vs. Voldy thing beyond the seven books. If he doesn't get axed then WHAT THE FUCK WAS THE POINT OF THE SERIES?

Ron:
die - would be like killing Wash. It would do nothing for the plot other than make people sad, and would be a waste of a solid character who'd been getting some decent growth in the last few books.

live - so he can marry Hermione. 'Cause, HELLO.

Hermione:
die - again, killing a sidekick/best friend doesn't do anything but give Harry more angst reasons to fight, and he doesn't need MORE angst reasons to fight. MOVING ON.

live - so she can marry Ron and become the youngest and first female Minister of Magic, despite leaving school before her NEWTs were done.

Neville: I'd put better odds on him not surviving than making it through.

Ginny: it would be awesome if she and Harry could end up together in the end

Neither Weasley twin better die OR ELSE.

Snape:
die - the poor guy deserves a break. I'd miss him, but having him sacrifice himself nobly (for either side) would make sense for the character.

live - and continue as Potions Master? Yeah, fine. I think he was doomed the minute he made that deal with Narcissa, but that's just me.

Draco:
die - as a minion of the Dark Lord, he's made his bed; he'll have to be prepared to lie in it. He couldn't be sent to Azkaban, either. As Harry's peer-nemesis, he'd have to die rather than being arrested for the kind of closure I'd need.

live - It's more interesting to have him repent and join the forces of good (and then move in with Harry) than to have him follow in his father's footsteps. He's the one character that could change sides and have it be credible (character growth, what?).

Percy: the wages of sin, young one, the wages of sin are DEATH! And he made his mother cry. Shame, shame on him. He's so expendable.

Weasley parents: I don't think she'd be that cruel. I think it would be a brave, brave choice if she did, but she'd have to do it early in the books and not in the last few pages.

Sirius Black: is alive and well in a parallel dimension, waiting to get pulled back through because of some complex spell that one of the sides sets up goes wacky and lets him make his way back in to this world. (hey, it works in science fiction)

Lupin: again, what would be the point? Kill off the last link Harry has to his parents?

Assorted Aurors, Hogwarts professors and students: Killing off secondary characters could go either way. On the one hand, they're soldiers in a battle that will have heavy losses; on the other hand, no purpose is served by racking up a body count like in Battle Royale. Moody's nearing his expiry date, Trewlawny is spacey enough to be kidnapped by Death Eaters, the elder Weasley boys are in dangerous lines of work anyway and could easily get it because of their daring.

On the horcruxes? Eh, whatever. They'll find some, they'll do some spells, whatever. The Side of Good will bring Voldy to a close-to-human form, and there'll be an epic battle with armies on either side. Snape and Draco will fight on the other side; Hermione will go head-to-head with Snape at some point. Then, at a critical moment, either Snape or Draco (or both) will start attacking the other death eaters because... gasp... they've just been stunning the Forces of Good, not killing them. And there will be much rejoicing. Harry will have to draw on all the darkness in his dark little soul to perform some unspeakably evil curse to bring down Voldy, nearly ending his own life in the process. But he survives and the curse-scar disappears and he's left to learn how to live his life without the scar.

And I'd love it if "Deathly Hallows" is the name of the place the kids hide out at.

...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANd some completely unrelated music!

1. Ladybirds, "Oh No! The Unicorns Are Knife-Fighting Again". With a title like that, how can you not want to hear it?

2. IV Thieves, "Chase Me Off/Out". Lead singer is Nic Armstrong ("If We Can Escape, My Pretty"). If the first half doesn't catch you, please stick around for the second half. Trust me.

3. Arcade Fire, "Rebellion (Lies) (Tronik Youth Re-Edit)".

4. Margot & the Nuclear So and So's, "Talking In Code". The entire album is good; this isn't the best song. This is, however, a nice little tune.

5. The Feeling, "Helicopter". Their other stuff is pretty fluffy and poppy, but this one is a bit... stranger. It's the requisite "harder" song on a pop album, with distorted guitars in the second half and less flowery imagery. Hawksley Workman could cover this and do a fantastic job at it.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thucyken.livejournal.com
Jekyll! Jekyll! Jekyll!
This comment brought to you by the Desire to Share Squee, co-funded by the Need not to Spoil Anything.
I'ma watch it again tonight when I get home and then post! post@ post! like a monkey.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 01:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
When I left this morning the file was still at 66% downloaded. GRRRR. *punts bittorrent*
From: [identity profile] spells-disaster.livejournal.com
Hey, and this is a big what if...

...what if JKR wants to continue writing, and not under the series of Harry as a kid going to hogwarts, but as an adult...or better yet, going backwards and filling in the gaps as to what happened more so in the past.

God forbid however, the work gets formulaic and but in the wrong hands and is churned out like clockwork...like those VC Andrews books (I dont know if you remember the ones, but they are borerline harlequin romances and people await the new titles, despite the fact its the same story line over and over again and the 'author' is dead.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 01:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
I wouldn't mind picking up with Harry five or ten years later, but on the other hand fandom has kind of taken possession of those years, and has done tons of interesting and beautiful and dark things. Collapsing all that possibility into a hard-and-fast canon would be so... dull.

And I can just see it: eighty years from now, and the Continuing Adventures of Harry Potter keep... continuing. They're in space, or something. Harry Potter and the Muggles on Mars.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 04:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
JKR has said in interviews (which of course I can't seem to find at the moment) that she loathes the idea of Nancy Drew-ing Harry Potter, and that book 7 is the end end end.

I'd love to see JKR write something not-HP. But she's a smart lady, so I suspect she'll hang around in that universe for a while longer. Perhaps a story years after the current series, perhaps more about the founders of Hogwarts and that era, probably more "companion materials."

But yeah, I agree. Fandom has developed the before and after of this world so well that a solid cannon would just be disappointing.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 04:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
I hope she sticks to it, because it would suck having seven novels leading up to an endpoint and then ending it with a TBC.

But I wouldn't mind a more historical-fantasy take on the universe with the Founders. It's a really cool universe, which is why I'm not totally opposed to more writing in that world.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
The more I think about it, the more I'd like to read her take on the Founders. They're far enough removed from the current storyline to be markedly different books, and that's a good thing. It'd be, like you said, a historical fantasy with a definite push towards the history. It would also give JKR the opportunity to play with the mythology a great deal more. And having a solid canon for the Founders would not ruin the beauty that fandom has created around the two Potter generations.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
"two Potter generations"

By which I mean James and Harry. Just to clarify.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 11:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
Yes. And I think it would give her a chance to play with her style, either modifying her grounded modern stuff for something a bit more mythic or (more interesting, I think) bringing the same profoundly grounded take on wizarding to the story of Hogwarts' founding. What kind of crazy strife was Hogwarts supposed to heal, that sort of thing.

As you say, with more of the history.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 03:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firstgold.livejournal.com

Ron: die - would be like killing Wash. It would do nothing for the plot other than make people sad, and would be a waste of a solid character who'd been getting some decent growth in the last few books.


A-FRELLING-MEN.

Harry will have to draw on all the darkness in his dark little soul to perform some unspeakably evil curse to bring down Voldy, nearly ending his own life in the process. But he survives and the curse-scar disappears and he's left to learn how to live his life without the scar.

If Harry were to use some unspeakably evil curse to bring down Vordy and he survived himself, I think he would spend quite a lot of time learning to live with what he has done. Throughout the books, there has always been talk/mention of how actions define a person, and I don't think that Harry would be able to bring himself, in the end, to kill Voldy using an Unspeakable. I think his path lies in using his strengths (his friendships, ability to love, Lily's protection on him as well as Petunia's reluctant protection) to vanquish Voldemort. Harry does have the potential to go darkside, but Hermione and Ron (unless they were killed) would be there to bring him back from the brink.

While it is probable that she will go the martyr route and everything has been leading to a giant Harry/Voldy show down, what if it were someone else who took down Voldemort? I've been thinking a lot lately of how things would change if Harry were not the one to take Voldemort down. He and Voldemort would have their final show down. They would both be *thisclose* to taking each other out (with grievous harm to the doer to accomplish this), but at that final moment, Harry can't kill Voldemort. Can't avenge all the deaths and pain in his life because it would mean losing himself in the process. And then, someone steps in and finishes the job for him - taking that responsibility and weight from him. I don't know who would do it, but it'd have to be someone who cared for Harry so deeply ...

But then I think about how J.K. Rowling writes, and I don't think she'd go that route.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
By unspeakably evil I didn't necessarily mean an Unspeakable. We've seen some fairly nasty curses that aren't from the bad three - I'm thinking of the scrumdiddlycentipede one from the last book - which may well be employed by Harry in the final battle.

Though, with the horcrux plot the final battle will be quite a lot different from the showdowns at the end of GoF or OotP. Harry'll be more prepared, will probably have his army... seven books of build-up is too much for a stealth assassination. Maybe they off Voldy halfway through and spend the rest of the book mopping up pockets of death eater resistance, only to have a filthy nasty turncoat use a Muggle weapon on Harry at the end. That would suck, but I'd prefer it to him being killed by magic. Actually, come to think of it, given Harry and Hermione's Muggle experience, it would be so cool if they used an RPG on Malfoy's castle. (tee hee)

And I wonder who (if anyone) would be this generation's Snape (Draco!!; Lupin is kind of already), and who will end up being this generation's Peter (Neville would be interesting, but I love the fic where it's one of the Creevey brothers).

Harry does have the potential to go darkside, but Hermione and Ron (unless they were killed) would be there to bring him back from the brink.

That would also be acceptable. Either both Hermione and Ron live, or Hermione and Ron die. They're one unit, a HermioneandRon, indivisible. Harry may only be capable of murder ('cause that's what it is, Voldy being an undead non-human evil incarnate or no) when he feels he has nothing left to lose and no one else to fight for. I'm a fan of ev0l!Harry, though, so...

I'm not sure what kind of loyalty he feels to the wizarding world as a whole; he's been discredited, mocked and scrutinized, made the figurehead of a cause he had no choice but to join, and has been losing friends to this battle before it had even begun. He wouldn't keep fighting to spare his fellow wizards. He might fight to protect Muggles, but his experience with Muggles has been even less pleasant.

But I'm not sure about having someone else kill Voldy. I think the only way I'd find that acceptable is if Harry, Ron and Hermione together blasted V. with the right mix of curses; some form of magic that the three of them together would have to perform in order for it to work. It would be a lot more true if someone older and more experienced stepped in to finish where Harry couldn't do it (because he's still young and innocent, or something along those lines), so that's also acceptable... but I think Harry needs some kind of vengeance/closure, which means he'd need to be there when the final blast is leveled against Voldy. Maybe not alone, but I'm not sure if Harry is self-aware enough to hold back at that final moment for fear of becoming evil.

I think by the time he has the opportunity and ability to off Voldy, he'll be seeing in black-and-white, and he'll be seeing the faces of his dead friends and family.

But if Harry dies at the second-last chapter and the survivors mount a final attack against the forces of darkness with their hero Harry's name as their rallying cry? LAME.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
I definitely just spend a good three minutes trying to figure out how the hell it would be so cool (ore even remotely effective, for that matter) if they used a Role-Playing Game on Malfoy's castle.

I'm envisioning pelting the walls with 20 sided dice and pre-painted miniatures.

*headshake*

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
If they were exploding d20s, then yeah. Or the d100s. Oooooh.

I just hope that she didn't write the battles with a Dungeon Master's Guide propped open beside her. 'Cause that would be wrong.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 05:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] guitarromantic.livejournal.com
Just to jump into the theorising here, what if the mysterious other who slays Voldemort was Neville? It'd kinda still work with the prophecy and all, and I guess he has as much to be angry at as Harry. Maybe V takes out Harry, and it finally pushes Neville over the edge so he can finish the already-weakened Voldemort?

Although I can't actually see that happening, so I think I'll go with Charl's holy trinity concept instead. The whole mystical power of love and friendship combo, you know...

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
I could understand Neville coming in to finish the job, but it would be such an unsatisfying ending.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 04:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
That's what I was thinking, though like Char, find the whole Neville saves the world plot idea to be rather disappointing.

I'd much rather see Neville go totally dark side and start murduring people left and right.

I mean, it's possible, right?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
Possible, but there'd have to be something pretty serious happening to Neville (and I don't mean an Imperius) to make him go evil. He's got such a strong (living) reminder of the Death Eaters' cruelty with his parents. I think he'd be less capable of that kind of cruelty, given that he's lived with the effects of said sort of cruelty.

On the other hand, in his parents he's got a great example of how to end a person without killing them. Bellatrix should watch her back.

Talking myself in circles here

Date: 2007-07-19 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
I think using Neville as the Peter would be a stupid, stupid choice 'cause no one would buy it. While Neville has gotten much stronger over the last two books, JKR established him as being pretty ineffectual in the first few books. Sure, he stands up to the Trio in Book 1, but is taken out with a single curse from Hermione. That sort of characterization sticks around (sometimes subconsciously) so when Neville does something particularly outstanding, we're surprised (hi, back third of Book 5?). It's part of what makes Neville as dynamic as he is. From Harry (or really, any of the Trio) we expect a certain amount of bravery and selflessness based on their actions in books 1-6. We don't have the same basis for Neville and therefore don't expect the same thing from him.

So why would Neville go Dark Side? He'd either have to passionately believe in Voldemort, really really hate the Good Guys, or turn for personal gain without a thought to the Good or Bad side. But none of those really fit Neville. He's certainly not selfish enough to go Dark to get something for himself, we have no inkling that he could hate the Good folks enough to turn Dark (hell, Harry would be more likely to do that. I'm not saying he is, just is more likely.), and the whole tortured parents and Bella plot would prevent Neville from ever throwing his chips in with Voldemort. As it should. If he were to turn Dark, we simply wouldn't buy it.

So ixnay on the Evil!Neville.

Unless he's been a spy ALL ALONG and the thing with his parents is just a cover and he's actually in love with Bella and is stuck in this crazy-ass love triangle with Voldemort and Bella ('cause she loves the Dark Lord) and those conversations he has with Crouch Jr.-as-Moody were really information exchanges and he went with Harry to the Ministry to prevent his from reaching the prophesy, not to help fight Death Eaters! That's it!

Re: Talking myself in circles here

Date: 2007-07-19 02:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
Crap. That started out as a rational, well thought comment.

Clearly, I'm beyond rational at this point.

Equally as clearly, we need Harry Potter like a grindylow needs water!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-19 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
Accio Deathly Hallows!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-19 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
The only way I can see now that Neville would be their Peter is if Neville gets fed up with being the shlub-background man and desires Glory! And a nice greenhouse. Or if he's captured, tortured to insanity and made to believe that Harry and the others were going to feed Neville to the Dark Lord because of their similiarities re: the Prophecy.

But then, since Peter and Neville are kind of parallels (the dopey friend), Rowling could make a stronger point about the innate goodness of people if Neville remains true to the side of good.

Though you do raise a good point about Crouch Jr. Who knows how much information was passed through that route (if any - he was kind of a looney).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 04:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amyisyellow.livejournal.com
My thoughts on the last Harry Potter book:

Percy Weasley might as well be dead already as far as I'm concerned. I've actually been interested in his character throughout because of the way J.K. Rowling always throws in so many little details that come out later. Really the guy hasn't done much other than sneak around in the background, but he's quite memorable regardless of his lack of page count or development. He's a bit of a Zelig of the novel, you never really pay much attention but he's always present. If nothing big happens with him in one of the sub-plots, I'll be shocked. Sadly, my bet is he and either Mr. Weasley or Ron will go to blows.

Snape has to pull something weird out of his hat. I can't believe he's truely evil, seriously. Number one, that's just to easy, and number two, you don't cast Alan Rickman to play a bad guy. Maybe he killed Dumbledore, but perhaps that was a diversion from something possibly sacrificing Dumbledore to save Harry. There just has to be more involved.


Ginny Weasley will totally be kicking some evil ass and taking names in the next book, fo' shore.

I'm pretty sure Sirius Black is gone. Harry lost both him and Dumbledore.... to be honest I think Lupin's pages are numbered. He needs no form of parental guidance to really achieve some sort of coming of age thingermerbob. Actually, Mr. Weasley and Percy doing battle is something somewhat tied into that as well, because I can see Mr. Weasley not being able to kill his son, but Percy being a big enough jerk to kill a family member. I don't forsee a blood bath in the next book, but I think if I were a father figure to Harry Potter right now, I'd totally revise my will, get all of the last things I want to do out of the way, and really enjoy the next few weeks cause once that book is out, they're all over-sauce.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 05:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
Yeah, if any Weasley is going to bite it, my money's on Percy. He's got such an interesting character - one of the few to have to make a decision about his allegiance - that I've always enjoyed him, too. I still have to re-read the sixth book, but from what I remember he's still not on good terms with his family.

I don't know if it's enough to push him over to the Death Eaters, but I also don't know what's the state of the post-Dumbledore world. Factionalism is a possibility. For simplicity's sake she'll probably collapse everything into Voldemort + posse and Harry + posse, but it would be so nice to see the undecideds play a strong role.

I'd love it if Snape did go back to the Death Eaters full time. Not that I also wouldn't love it if he was good all along, but he's a bitter asshat of a wizard who was only really on the side of good because of Dumbledore's influence, or of loyalty that Snape felt to the headmaster. But with the depth of hatred that Snape has for Potters past and present, I'd have a hard time seeing him throw his lot in with the Muggle-lovers if Harry was in charge. It is easy to make him evil, but it also makes sense for what we know about the character.

I totally agree that Rowling owes us an explanation in the first chapter or two about what the hell happened between Snape and Dumbledore there at the end of the last book.

Ginny is my homegirl and will rise as an insanely powerful witch who will be key in making their victory a success. She will not become a Death Eater or otherwise be seduced by ev0l.

I do hope she's done with killing Harry's mentors. Too, Lupin is just the ex-professor and friend where Dumbledore and Sirius were stronger influences (even though I disagree and think that Lupin is one of the most interesting characters in the series and should be more prominent just 'cause).

Getting rid of Dumbledore made sense (made perfect sense!) but I think that Harry is going to be able to stand on his own two feet for this next one. Not because he's ready, exactly, but because he's been shafted by one too many authority figures who felt that he was "too young" to be fully involved that now he'll strike out on his own (with Ron and Hermione) and do something rash.

Just as long as it's a good death, for any/everyone who bites it... just as long as it's a good death.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-19 12:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratefanatic.livejournal.com
A Snape who appears to be good but ends up returning to the Death Eaters anyway would be fantastic simply 'cause it'd break the archetype. And creatively breaking archetypes is awesome. Even better is luring readers into following the archetype then TROWING IT IN THEIR FACES. HAHAHAH!

Ahem.

I'd also really really really like to see the undecideds. Snape totally fits there, what with his conflicting loyalties and grudges, as do Percy and many of the characters we've only seen smallish bits of. Like Mundungus (who I actually suspect is mostly or entirely bad, but more on that later). I'm inclined to think she will include the grey area folks because the last two books in particular have tackled the whole "Good people can do bad and Bad people can do good" idea (Hi, Snape's Worst Memory?).

Right. Mundungus. We know from book 5 (and maybe 6?) that he's a scummy thief. He steals things almost compulsively. Molly Weasley doesn't like him. Hell, most of the Order isn't fond of him, but he's useful because he knows the other unsavory folk. Then he goes and gets himself arrested and pretty much falls out of the picture. So why the pages dedicated to his skulking and stealing if that isn't important later on? I won't buy the "it adds texture/depth/character to the story" argument, because really. Point me to a scene or character written only to add texture. JKR doesn't do that. Everything is either character or plot based. Sure, half the scenes appear to be little bits of character and we discover that they're actually sizable plot points (I suspect Sirius' talk of Regulus will become an example of this).

And like you said, a good death will pretty much Ok any death for me. Make it good (though not necessarily heroic) and I'll be happy. Ish.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-19 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
Mostly, I want to hear/watch the reactions of all those fans who refuse to believe that canon!Snape is anything but cute and cuddly. And like you said, breaking that archetype would be fantastic. How boring would it be if he repented and fought for Harry? And how out of character, too: Snape hates Harry, probably more than he hates the idea of not-killing Muggles.

For my money, the minute Snape made that Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa he'd made his mind up about where his loyalties were going to fall.

In 6 (which I just re-read), Mundungus was stealing Black family heirlooms from Grimmauld Place and selling them in Hogsmede. Scummy thief, most assuredly.

I think most of fandom has decided that Regulus was the one who took that locket-horcrux, so I'm a-thinking there'll be at least a line or two about him in the new book. ('Course, I could go online and read the damn book right now and find out, but I won't.)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] guitarromantic.livejournal.com
I saw it last night, I think as usual they skimped out on most of the plot (no prefects, no prophecy info, no department of mysteries, no mirror things, no real explanation about Voldemort's possession work) but it was entertaining enough.

As for the final book: some asshole repeatedly posted spoilers in a thread title on a forum I read so I (apparently) have an idea how it ends. In spite of that though, the stuff you're saying sounds pretty accurate and I hope it turns out something like that.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 05:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
Man, what an asshat. I hope there's a firey death of a thousand suns to be visited upon his asshatty ass.

the stuff you're saying sounds pretty accurate and I hope it turns out something like that.

Vague endorsement! Woo! (Srsly, though - what an asshat!)

And on the movie: if they'd have given more of those details, they'd really have bogged down the plot to a point where nothing would have happened. Though I do disagree about the explanation for the possession: for the purposes of the plot, we knew there was a connection, that Voldemort was more experienced than Harry, and then they established that wizards could dematerialize. The actual mechanics of the possession weren't as important.

But then, I didn't even notice that there was no Quidditch until someone at the office mentioned it. I'm one of those who's happy that the films are starting to exist as separate from the books. It was a different screenwriter this time around, and the difference was notable. Everything in the film made sense in the film, and meandering plotlines were trimmed. Like Umbrage said, trim what doesn't need to be there. :)

(just for you, I'll delete my first reply)

Date: 2007-07-16 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] guitarromantic.livejournal.com
Yeah, I didn't notice the quidditch either, although I was kinda over that after the first few books really.

Hmm I guess you're right about the plot stuff, I do appreciate what a hard task converting this stuff into celluloid is. I just felt the possession wasn't as strong as it could've been - we didn't really see Harry attacking Arthur as much as I'd thought, and I don't know that they emphasised the ending where Dumbledore could have finished VoldemortHarry off, perhaps. And while I'm at it, they also missed the St. Mungo's visit, which again weakened the plot since we lost the whole Devil's Snare sideplot which gives it more depth. My biggest issue with the films is that the bad guys always seem to just be lurking in the shadows throughout the movie until the denoument where they suddenly appear and, well, be all evil. In the books they're normally hinted at throughout, we're kept guessing and there are little back-references quite frequently. The movies consistently two-dimensionalise the plots/characters, I guess for time restrictions, but it does annoy me at times.

And finally: don't ever quote Umbridge to back up an argument again =(

hee! thanks.

Date: 2007-07-16 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
I think that Rowling was over the quidditch after the first few books, too, seeing as how Harry kept missing matches ‘cause he nearly died for the zillionth time.

I guess taking this film against the last one, the narrative economy show in this adaptation really strengthened the film as a film because they picked one thread of the somewhat-overblown but certainly complicated plot of the novel. In the GoF film they lacked that through-continuity, and just gave us a sequence of scenes that weren't causally linked. While a lot of texture was lost, they gave us a movie that was still satisfying (rather than the annoying mash of GoF), and in laid themes and relationships that will be important looking towards the next film.

But I agree they missed a chance, not making more of a deal about how much power possessed!Harry had against Dumbledore, and whether Dumbledore could have wiped out Voldy in that moment. Some evidence of inner conflict, a choice to be made, something other than staring, stunned. People in these movies do altogether too much stunned-staring.

That said, as a fan I really would have liked to see the twins' swamp, to see Draco and Lupin and other secondary characters have more than one line, include scenes about cleaning out the Black house... etc.

Re: hee! thanks.

Date: 2007-07-16 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] guitarromantic.livejournal.com
Ohh yeah, the swamp, they could have made more of that. I loved F+G's leaving speech and the order to Peeves, that would have been nice.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-16 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
Yeah, for whatever reason this film was all about the showing, not telling (which isn't always a bad thing) but that's one speech I wouldn't have minded to see.

But then, I wouldn't mind to see an entire film's worth of Weasley twins. I would entirely endorse a spin-off series with them selling joke products and, like, solving crime. Heh.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-17 10:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hoskie.livejournal.com
Besides perhaps Snape, Percy is my absolute favourite character.

... but I've pretty much given up on the notion that JKR is going to do anything interesting with him.

And what the hell was with the OotP movie?! He made an appearance but had NO DIALOGUE.

Bah. At least I have my fan fiction. Fanon FTW.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-18 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naturelf.livejournal.com
I'm interested to see what she does with Snape and Percy because they are the two characters (the only two characters) that have a moral grey area. I don't think she can abandon Percy (or kill him off in the space between the two books) because she'll have to somehow deal with the Weasleys.

Fanon FTW indeed; the hardest part about being an HP fan is, I think, watching the films. We all have our pet characters (I don't think there's anyone who likes Harry the best) but for good or ill the stories are about Harry.

It's also why I'm a bit leery of Rowling writing prequel/sequel stuff in the world, 'cause it'll collapse the possibilities of fanon into a single canon. And that's just not interesting.
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