More about The Thesis
May. 30th, 2010 10:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
charloweenQuestion for those of you in fandom (those of you not in fandom, please feel free to scroll on by): a theorist I'm reading says that fans "use the material created by the dominant class to express their resistance and overcome feelings of subordination and powerlessness".
I don't think this is right. Do you think this is right?
This is entirely non-scientific, non-ethics-approved, not-going-in-The-Thesis, and is mostly about reassurance that I'm not entirely crazy. I read one book last week that is making me very thinky. Now in everything I read on this topic I see two very different kinds of fan studies:
One is based on the idea that we're all fans of something and/or media objects mediate our subjective self-construction, so we should study that! And the other seems to be based in decades-old theory about how K/S is a radical feminist agenda to remake the universe into one where TV characters can be gay, and inspires statements like the above (uncited! I'm so bad! stop me now before I use APA format! ooh, so dangerous!).
I'm concerned that I might be too far into fandom for much objectivity (good thing I left that trusty trail of breadcrumbs!), but from my moderately self-aware subjective position I don't think I started reading X-Files fic over a decade ago in order to resist the subordinating hegemonies of industrial production. I wanted more stories. Maybe even some where Mulder and Scully held hands.
I don't recall thinking of fic in general as a way to fix the show (virtual seasons aside), 'cause each fic ended and didn't change anything that was on the screen, and only changed other fic in the sense that genres evolve and new fic respond to aggregated tendencies and/or fanon. (On that: I remember exasperated posts on a.t.x.c. about Scully's hair not smelling like strawberries, okay?. Heh!)
I suppose it's just an idle asking 'cause my head's been up this directed reading for many unbroken days (I had to make notes at the Jays game today because I'd thought of something related to The Thesis [[MAKE IT STOP]]). *waves hands*
Also, man: I totally missed dusting that part of the ceiling. Mad cobwebs, yo!
ETA: Have just spent 45 minutes blogging and not writing. Bad! Must write more in the other window. You know, the one where I'm supposed to be writing.
ETA 2 (12:30am): Went back to writing, oh-so diligently, and finished another summary! So I started on yet another! Wahooooo!
I don't think this is right. Do you think this is right?
This is entirely non-scientific, non-ethics-approved, not-going-in-The-Thesis, and is mostly about reassurance that I'm not entirely crazy. I read one book last week that is making me very thinky. Now in everything I read on this topic I see two very different kinds of fan studies:
One is based on the idea that we're all fans of something and/or media objects mediate our subjective self-construction, so we should study that! And the other seems to be based in decades-old theory about how K/S is a radical feminist agenda to remake the universe into one where TV characters can be gay, and inspires statements like the above (uncited! I'm so bad! stop me now before I use APA format! ooh, so dangerous!).
I'm concerned that I might be too far into fandom for much objectivity (good thing I left that trusty trail of breadcrumbs!), but from my moderately self-aware subjective position I don't think I started reading X-Files fic over a decade ago in order to resist the subordinating hegemonies of industrial production. I wanted more stories. Maybe even some where Mulder and Scully held hands.
I don't recall thinking of fic in general as a way to fix the show (virtual seasons aside), 'cause each fic ended and didn't change anything that was on the screen, and only changed other fic in the sense that genres evolve and new fic respond to aggregated tendencies and/or fanon. (On that: I remember exasperated posts on a.t.x.c. about Scully's hair not smelling like strawberries, okay?. Heh!)
I suppose it's just an idle asking 'cause my head's been up this directed reading for many unbroken days (I had to make notes at the Jays game today because I'd thought of something related to The Thesis [[MAKE IT STOP]]). *waves hands*
Also, man: I totally missed dusting that part of the ceiling. Mad cobwebs, yo!
ETA: Have just spent 45 minutes blogging and not writing. Bad! Must write more in the other window. You know, the one where I'm supposed to be writing.
ETA 2 (12:30am): Went back to writing, oh-so diligently, and finished another summary! So I started on yet another! Wahooooo!
(no subject)
Date: 2010-05-31 07:47 am (UTC)That theorist's use of the phrase "dominant class" reminded me immediately of this post, in which
On an even simpler level, while there are certainly people who write fic and make vids and etc in explicit subversion of something to do with the source (like all the SPN vids critiquing the show's use of women), there are even more of us who use fandom and its creative expressions not, as you put it, "to resist the subordinating hegemonies of industrial production", but to share (and/or prolong) an enjoyable experience. As a culture, fandom allows both reasons for involvement (and probably more besides!), but yeah, that decades old K/S theory imposes a political interpretation where one does not necessarily exist.
Thoughts boiled down: I agree with you! I, personally, am not in fandom for political reasons; I'm here because I like certain stories a heck of a lot, and either want more of them than the canon story provides, or want to share them with likeminded others. (I also agree with your "fic can't fix the show" feeling. While I have written any number of spackle stories to address things that I felt weren't explored particularly well in the source, I am under no illusions that my fic will necessarily be seen as spackle by *anyone other than me*. I mean, I *hope* that my spackle will work for other people in the fandom, because that goes back to the "shared language/ experience" thing. If someone else comments to say that they've adopted my story into their personal fanon, that's *something*--and, like Scully's strawberry shampoo, it's occasionally something that has a widespread impact on the fannish community [heck, *I* get that reference, and I've never read a stitch of XF fic]--but it stops with fandom. Fanon != Canon. The end!)
...my boiled down version didn't boil down enough, apparently. Woooooooooooooooords!
To be clear, I didn't stay up just to see if someone would reply. Woo stress insomnia + hot weather.
Date: 2010-05-31 09:08 am (UTC)Thank you for this - I was starting to doubt my perspective and critical orientation, and little stuff like that. Perhaps theorizing about a culture that I belong to wasn't the best idea. (TOO LATE NOW!)
The really interesting and creative thing about the theory I'm digging through (that isn't written by the oversimplifiers) is how it's possible to (academically) theorize fandom without resorting to tidy generalizations! There are also ways to deal with the loss of the subject and author under postmodernism while still acknowledging that subjectivity and authorship exist. One book (I'll email you the info) spends an entire chapter explaining how TPTB =/= a dominant class, and how that's true for a lot of reasons, meaning that whenever fandom is described as anti-hegemonic... well, there is no hegemony to be anti- to. The problem with the oversimplifiers (as it's been argued by other academics) is that they reduce fandom to a set of productive behaviours, full stop. (I have some of this in my previous post.)
The shared language/experience thing's why I like talking about "fandom culture" rather than "fan (or audience) behaviour (or practices)". There are norms, there are codes, and there are behaviours and practices and audiences, but it's not just about posting a fic or looking up spoilers (some academics? really into the idea of spoilers. IDK.) or anything so tidy. Fandom is messy! It replicates power structures (BNFs, mods, people being human people), it provides an imaginative space, it does lots of things but it sure as hell ain't limited to a) fic, that b) exists because we fans don't have "economic power" that would let us wander up to whatever non-existent hegemony and demand that Scully's strawberry shampoo get mentioned in an episode, so therefore back to c) fic.
Long reply is long, too. My bad. Thanks for commenting, I really did need to bounce this off another brain. So, ♥
Re: To be clear, I didn't stay up just to see if someone would reply. Woo stress insomnia + hot weat
Date: 2010-06-01 12:20 am (UTC)it's possible to (academically) theorize fandom without resorting to tidy generalizations! [...] The shared language/experience thing's why I like talking about "fandom culture" rather than "fan (or audience) behaviour (or practices)".
This this this. I think fandom should be viewed as a culture, not as a movement. If it's a movement, it's limited, with a finite purpose and structure and methodology; as a culture, it involves varied realms of activities, behaviours, movements, ideologies, purposes, structures, methodologies...etc etc. As a culture, fandom can be seen as being made up of *people*.
:) Glad to help!
this matters, this does matter, this totally matters (*rocks back and forth*)
Date: 2010-06-01 02:22 am (UTC)If it's a movement, it's limited, with a finite purpose and structure and methodology
Absolutely! And with limited possibilities for expression. There are frustratingly few references - let alone sustained discussions to vids in academic literature. You'd think that if fandom was going to be framed as this anarcha-feminist creative utopia, theorists would be all over the practices that wander up to the source material and actually take it.
But no: it's all about writing.
(But then: I don't know if writing in, like, a hyperdiegetic Derridean frame has less of a material connection to a broadcast episode than does the manipulation of a digital file. I want my supervisor back from vacation so I can ask her. I don't want to have to research copyright law on stealing pictures vs. stealing ideas.)
18000 words later I have confidence in why it's "fan culture". (I think - I think - that cultures circulate within societies. Maybe. Eff it anyway, sometimes I hate being interdisciplinary.)
*has thoughts* Here we go ...
Date: 2010-06-03 09:31 am (UTC)The conversation was borne out of a discussion of another friend's for activism, something we still clash over as she thinks it's the only way to get results, while I'm more of a 'learn the rules, destroy it from the inside' kind of gal. I kind of think of fandom as the metaphorical doll house (hee, unintentional fandom reference), here, where someone else builds it, but lots of people come over to play, bring their own dolls, and sometimes use that couch cushion for purposes the builder never intended. (Gay purposes. BAD FEMINIST!)
I'm with Serrico in the Death of the Author bits - useful, so long as you stay away from the Derrida that follows. *shudder*. But, as usual, I am full of more questions then answers, so I'm more curious about what people know about how the television they love makes it to the screen, and if it's possible to love fic while also loving the 'source' material. I watched Generation Kill because one of my reliable authors of fic started playing in that sandbox, and I wanted to play, too. GK is an interesting example, I find, because it's a kind of fandom already- a story adapted from 'real life', being interpreted by fans of the story who happen to be filmmakers, actors playing real people, a few guys playing themselves, and a few guys made up to exist in the context of the show. Where does the 'original' or 'true story' end and creations of fans begin?
I've also found that in other fandoms I like to read, SGA especially, I get canon confused with things I've read, where authors write such a wonderful story I have trouble sorting the Official Show Information with what the author made up to make the story what it is. SGA is a fandom where people do use fic to 'fix' the shows, which I seemed to shy away from reading, more interested in seeing what sparked the need to write other than 'OMG you guyzzz mckays' supposed to end up with shePPardd!!' Slightly rude, but true to what I've seen. I've never seen fandom as a fix-it, I've always experienced it as a 'What if?' Probably why more than half of the stories I love are AUs.
I also suspect that (very fictional) Brad Colbert's hair, while not actually smelling like strawberries, has been accused of smelling so by one (very fictional) Ray Person.
*goes to lie down* Stupid time difference. Tomorrow's going to be rough.